Election latest: 'You name it, Labour will tax it': Rishi Sunak goes on the attack as he faces Keir Starmer in first live head-to-head of election campaign (2024)

Julie Etchingham asks the party leaders whether they would use private healthcare as a last resort if they had loved ones on a long waiting list for surgery.

"Yes," Rishi Sunak replies simply.

Sir Keir Starmer says he does and would not use private healthcare as his wife works in the NHS. "It runs through my DNA", he says.

Sir Keir Starmer is asked next how he would resolve the junior doctors strike.

He says for "months and months and months, the prime minister hasn't resolved them".

He says they need to get into the room to negotiate.

The Labour leader then pivots to reducing NHS waiting lists, saying he has a plan to offer 40,000 more appointments per week.

Rishi Sunak is then given the opportunity to respond, and he starts by saying he is "grateful to everyone in the NHS for working so hard", and notes that it's only the junior doctors who have not reached a settlement with the government.

He says he wants to agree a deal with the junior doctors that is "fair and affordable", and he criticises the demand for a 35% pay rise, which would require a tax rise.

By Jennifer Scott, political reporter

As the NHS is mentioned, another snigg*r in the spin room - Rishi Sunak's mum was a pharmacist and dad was a GP, don't you know...

Sir Keir Starmer gets his first laugh of the evening from the audience too, questioning the PM's maths skills when it comes to his claims that waiting lists are coming down.

But the topic is a serious one and you can see the concentrated looks on the viewers' faces.

There is the first applause for Sunak when he refuses to use taxpayer's money to raise junior doctors pay by their demanded 35%.

But there is another giggle from the audience as Starmer pulls somewhat silly faces after being berated by Sunak over how he would stop the strikes.

Wow! Rishi Sunak comes out fighting on tax, repeatedly accusing Sir Keir Starmer of planning to raise taxes by £2,000.

He's combative and keeps his message simple. He's aggressive.

His advisers have obviously told him to take the gloves off and he has.

He interrupts the Labour leader, shouts over him and keeps hammering home his tax rise allegations.

In contrast, so far Sir Keir is slow and ponderous. Round one to Rishi Sunak.

Now, the pair are asked by a cancer survivor in the audience about the state of the NHS and "how long it will take to fix it".

Sir Keir says his wife works at a hospital and agrees the NHS is "broken".

"It is unforgivable what happened to the NHS," he says.

He points out waiting lists have increased under the PM.

Rishi Sunak says "he was brought up in the NHS" as his dad was a GP and his mum a pharmacist.

He says he acknowledges damage has been done but says record funding is going into the health service.

"The NHS is still recovering from COVID," he says.

He admits there are challenges and points some blame to industrial action for NHS waiting lists - this is met with groans in the audience.

After some to-and-fro between the two party leaders, debate leader Julie Etchingham asks them to "draw breath" and explain how they will "connect" with questioner Paula and her cost of living struggles.

Rishi Sunak says he wants to be judged by his past actions - bringing up the furlough scheme he introduced as chancellor during the pandemic.

He once again pledges to protect people's financial security by cutting taxes.

Sir Keir Starmer says his parents "didn't have a lot of money" growing up and adds that he knows how Paula feels.

"I don't think the prime minister quite understands the position you and other people are in," he says.

The prime minister comes back on this, saying he has a plan to "ease anxieties" - and for another time during this debate says he will bring down taxes.

By Jennifer Scott, political reporter

A little jovial "oooooh" rolls across the spin room as the lights go down and the show commences - as well as a giggle about the leaders not seeming to know what to do with their hands.

But now we are down to business with Paula, whose description of the cost of living crisis gets a lot of heads nodding in the audience, whether it be her struggling to make ends meet or batch cooking to avoid peak energy prices.

As Starmer lays into Sunak's "plan" and how it isn't working for Paula, the PM pulls an odd eyebrow - and gets his own nods from the audience as he claims Labour will raise taxes to pay for their own policies.

But the biggest reaction in the spin room is a cheer and laughter as the Labour leader mentions his dad is a toolmaker. We all had that on our debate bingo card, didn't we?

Sir Keir Starmer is asked to respond to Rishi Sunak's assertion that the "plan is working" and the economy is growing.

The Labour leader replies by questioning the timing of the election.

"Because if he thinks things are going to get better towards the second half of this year, why's he called it now?

"He's called it now because he knows - and I'll ask him this - he knows inflation is going to go back up. He knows energy prices are going to go back up in the autumn - that's what he's not telling you.

"So he says the plan is working, but I don't think he believes the plan is working, because if he thought the plan was working, he wouldn't have called this election right now."

PM 'lives in a different world'

Mr Sunak says the Labour leader's assertion is "slightly ironic" because he's been demanding an election "since I got this job".

Mr Sunak repeats that "the plan is working", but adds: "Of course I know everyone is only just starting to feel the benefits of it."

He says inflation is down and taxes are being cut.

"Keir Starmer would put all that progress at risk," he says, claiming that Labour would raise household taxes by £2,000.

Addressing the person who asked about the cost of living, Paula, Sir Keir says: "I just don't know how you feel when you hear a prime minister say, having heard what you're going through, that the plan is working, it's all alright."

He says so many people are struggling, and the PM "lives in a different world".

Tax rises 'in Labour's DNA'

Mr Sunak repeats his question about what Labour wants to raise taxes, and Sir Keir replies that the Tories have raised taxes 26 times - after promising not to do so in their last manifesto.

He labels the PM "the British expert on tax rises".

Mr Sunak says: "Mark my words: Labour will raise your taxes. It's in your DNA."

Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer are asked by an audience member who is "worried about her future" due to the cost of living crisis.

Mr Sunak says he "understands the strain" the last few years have put on the country.

He says his plan has helped bring inflation down and his "bold plan" will "bring stability".

But the Labour leader says "this government has lost control".

"If a government loses control of the economy, it is working people who pay the price," he says.

In his opening statement, Rishi Sunak says "uncertain times call for a clear plan and bold action".

He says in five weeks either he or Sir Keir Starmer will be prime minister.

"Beyond raising your taxes and raiding your pensions, no one knows what Labour would actually do," he says.

The prime minister then pledges tax cuts and pension protection, as well as a reduction in immigration.

"I have a clear plan for a more secure future for you and your family," he finishes his statement by saying.